What would a believer tell an Atheist who asks for evidence?


the-strange-characters-of-wizard-of-ozIt is always interesting, or perhaps entertaining is a better word, to browse the Christian Post and see if anything catches my eye. Is the grass greener on the other side of the fence, and are their credible arguments lurking in some dusty long forgotten corner? (I suspect you can guess the answer).

Why?

Well because I once lived inside the bubble of belief quite oblivious to the reality outside, and so I do now have an interest in understanding what the full conversation is, and will not restrict myself to views I just happen to agree with.

So anyway, I have a small gem for you to enjoy because I found an article entitled “A Matter of Faith– What Would You Tell An Atheist If He Wanted Concrete Evidence Before He Would Believe in Our Creator God?“.

If you are perhaps now speculating that you might perhaps be entertained, but not actually informed … well, let’s just say that your expectations will be fully met.

Here is what we find …

It starts off with a discussion regarding a debate in the comments section of a theist video posted to the “Jesus Christ is King” Facebook group. Apparently many of the 115,000 comments were “hate-filled”. It is of course true that people in on-line discussions will lose their cool and vent, and no particular micro-community is immune to that, but I do suspect that the term “hate-filled” is perhaps being abused by the author as it often is – Fact-based criticism of irrational ideas is not “hate”. If indeed personal insults are being tossed about, then the term may indeed be warranted, but even then labelling somebody as a “stupid twit” might actually be a factual statement that is robustly backed up with evidence provided by the target of that label in some preceding comment.

So the reason for all that is that the author apparently left a comment within that FB dialog suggesting a book, and an atheist replied (nicely) that a book is simply not enough because evidence is needed. That reply sets the scene for what is to now come – “evidence” (no please, don’t hold your breath).

How do you explain to a nonbeliever that God really does exist? When I asked my Facebook friends, I received some incredible responses. While some said they’d share their personal testimony, others mentioned Bible verses they’d share.

Well yes, those responses are indeed incredible in the sense that people actually thought that either would be in any way credible at all. Subjective human experience is just that, and are not evidence of a god. It is of course more than a little bit odd to consider the experiences of other Christians as credible, and yet at the same time dismiss the personal experiences of those who hold different religious beliefs, for example the thought that the personal experiences of the 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet are delusional and wrong. In what way exactly are these experiences different? The experiences that align with the belief are accepted and yet other experiences from different beliefs are dismissed, so how does this work?

As for a quote from the bible … what can one do but roll ones eyes, the bible is a collection of “claims” and is not evidence.

What then follows is the usual stuff … the bible is a collection of books (true) … the authors all back each other up (no they don’t) … there are apparently “coincidences” and that just must be god (but no actual examples are given).

Now we have a real gem (try not to laugh too loudly) …

A pastor friend on Facebook shared this, “For me, I would have to have proof God doesn’t exist. Quoting scripture to them won’t work, because they don’t believe in the Bible. Seeing comes from faith. It’s not up to us to prove there’s a God, that’s God’s job. We are to lead by example, show others the way to Christ, and the Holy Spirit will convict and penetrate the depths of the heart.”

Yes indeed, lets play “shift the burden of proof and make it the non-believer’s problem to disprove god“.

Nope, it does not work like that, if you have a claim, you need to cite evidence, and the lack of any such evidence means that your claim will not be believed. To attempt to shift the burden of proof is to more or less openly confess that you have no evidence.

And so the final bit of “evidence” on offer is wind … yes really …

Another friend added, “God is like the wind. You can feel it. You know it’s there. You just can’t see the actual wind. You can see stuff blowing, but not the wind itself. You can’t see God, but you can feel Him.

Wind is of course something that we can measure and detect and that is in complete contrast to a supernatural entity that cannot be measured or detected.

And that’s a wrap, apart from the usual bible quote to tail the article that is all we find here, and so there you have it then, that is the “evidence”.

What can one say except to observe that what we have is essentially an article that hangs out with a girl from Kansas, her dog, a rather friendly lion, a tin man, and is off on a journey seeking a brain.

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